Forgiveness
May 03, 2005Justice is a virtue and so, many claim, is forgiveness. But they seem inconsistent. Is forgiveness really a virtue?
Many thanks to all of you who called during Tuesday's Philosophy Talk (May 3). We very much appreciated your interest! There are a number of fascinating issues we touched upon, and some we did not. Among the latter is the relationship between interpersonal forgiveness and political forgiveness. For an example, see the front page story in the NYT (April 18, 2005) about a traditional forgiveness "ritual" currently being practiced in Uganda. It is explicitly meant as an alternative to the more familiar procedures of criminal justice (proposed actions by the International Criminal Court are mentioned in the article). The offenders go through a ritual that includes dipping their right toe in a raw egg (the symbol of innocent life, we're informed) and paying some sort of reparation. After several such steps, they are accepted back into the community, in spite of horrific injuries they may have inflicted. So this comes to something like pardon. One of their victims expresses deep disagreement with this process, indicating that she's not forgiven her attackers at all--first they need to be punished. Question: is this ritual of reconciliation really about _forgiveness_ at all, or about something else? Do forgiveness and justice clash? Necessarily clash?
John Perry's "To Blog is to Forgive?" is helpful in formulating an answer to these questions.
Justice is a virtue and so, many claim, is forgiveness. But they seem inconsistent. Is forgiveness really a virtue?
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Justice is a virtue and so, many claim, is forgiveness. But they seem inconsistent. Is forgiveness really a virtue?
Why do some people have a strange desire to do weird things for no (good) reason? There's something fascinating about kids who eat laundry soap as part of a “challenge,” or people who deliberately... Read more
Making a better world would be a great thing—but do we need philosophers to help us do that? Famously (or infamously), not all philosophers have been such great people. So are they the folks we... Read more
In her time—the 4th century CE—Hypatia was one of the most famous philosophers in Alexandria, and indeed in the ancient world. She studied and taught mathematics,... Read more
Mexican philosophy is full of fascinating ideas, from Mexica ("Aztec") and Mayan thought to Sor Juana’s feminism and Emilio Uranga’s existentialism... Read more
Your friendly neighborhood Senior Prodcuer here, once again stepping out from behind the mixing board to bring you some bonus content from this week's 17th (!) annual Summer Reading special.... Read more
Gender is a controversial topic these days. To some, gender is an oppressive system designed to keep women down: people go around saying "girls are made of sugar and spice and boys are made of... Read more
Fascism is on the rise, new infectious diseases keep cropping up, and we’re on the verge of environmental collapse: how on earth could art possibly save us? The arts are may be nice distraction,... Read more
Some say the world is full of contradictions, like “parting is such sweet sorrow.” Parting is sweet, but parting is also sad; and sweetness and sadness are opposites. But logicians would say that... Read more
Our minds are amazing prediction machines—and sometimes they can even make their predictions come true!
Does reading that strike you as something out of The Secret—like if you... Read more
Derek Parfit was a really interesting thinker when it came to identity and the self. He had a particularly cool thought experiment involving tele-transportation.
Suppose you’re on your... Read more
When philosophers talk about perception, they tend to focus on what we see and hear, and rarely on what we smell. But olfaction is a strange sense that deserves greater philosophical scrutiny. For... Read more
A caller in this week's episode nominated "Women Talking" for a Dionysus Award. Guest co-host Jeremy Sabol takes that as a springboard to blog about movies and... Read more
This week we’re thinking about Cancel Culture, which some consider a real problem: people losing their jobs, being harassed online, their home addresses being shared—all because they said... Read more
This week we’re asking why we should trust science—which may sound like a weird question. After all, why would we doubt the method that helps us build bridges and skyscrapers, formulate life... Read more
Following up on last year's not-so-new experiment, here's a little behind-the-scenes look into the brief audio montages (produced... Read more
This week we’re asking what it’s... Read more
This essay also appears at the website of Oxford University Press, publisher of Josh's new book,
"The World According to Proust."
... Read more
This week we’re thinking about how to create a world in which our leaders are not just effective legislators, but also good people.
Some might think there are not enough leaders like that... Read more
This week we're thinking about the British Liberal tradition and its relationship to colonialism and self-government. Classical Liberal thinkers, like John Locke and John Stuart Mill, held that... Read more
This week we’re thinking about Collective Action and Climate Change. With floods and fires getting more frequent and intense, and with the summer just ended shattering heat records around the... Read more
This week we’re thinking about cultural appropriation and asking who owns culture—which may be a weird way of thinking about it. It's easy to see how somebody can own the rights to a song they... Read more
This week we’re questioning Effective Altruism. That’s Peter Singer’s idea that you should do the most good you can, and you should figure out what that is by doing your homework and choosing the... Read more
This week we're asking what Political Inequality is. Sounds easy to define, right? That’s when some people don’t get an equal voice in society, because they’re not represented in government, or... Read more
This week we're asking whether it's rational to be optimistic—which seems like bit of a crazy question if you've been reading the news lately. After all, what could possibly justify the belief... Read more
This week we're thinking about the Changing Face of Antisemitism—a program recorded last month at the Stanford Humanities Center for our first live, in-person event in 2-1/2 years.
... Read more
Comments (4)
Guest
Wednesday, May 4, 2005 -- 5:00 PM
Do forgiveness and justice clash? Necessarily clasDo forgiveness and justice clash? Necessarily clash?
I believe part of the reason why forgiveness and justice sometimes seem to clash is that many people see bad acts as indications of bad people. Bad acts can be forgiven, bad people can only be reformed (or locked away forever, or otherwise disposed of).
I have heard and read stories about the families of people convicted of horrific crimes begging the courts for mercy. They are able to see the convicted person as a person, and to separate his actions from his worth as a person. To many, however, these convicts become "criminals", "monsters" and so on. There can be no forgiveness.
Thus, forgiveness appears to clash with justice because by its nature, nobody can "deserve" forgiveness. It is intimately tied up in many minds with the idea of "mercy", which falls like a gentle rain - blessing indiscriminately those who it touches. If justice, as Socrates said, is getting what you deserve, then mercy is the very opposite of justice. Presidents forgive. Victims forgive. Judges and juries cannot forgive.
Guest
Thursday, May 5, 2005 -- 5:00 PM
I forgive people based on their Will and intelligeI forgive people based on their Will and intelligence, and the expected reasonable actions of person based on age. Of course there are certain acts when committed will not receive my forgiveness no matter what-I will have to leave their forgiveness to God. In order for a person to receive forgiveness I require that the person in question alleviate the wrong they have committed, give the person what they have taken back to the original owner. If this action is not performed or cannot be performed then the person will not receive forgiveness. There is a tally system on which my system of forgiveness is based. Some individuals wish to exploit another person?s willingness to forgive them. These exploiters should be found and friendships with them should immediately end.
I have heard that the majority of evil in the world is caused through ignorance-the person in question does not know any better. I believe this is indeed part of the cause, but I also believe that it is caused through the individual person?s Will. A person?s Will determines their intelligence and love of knowledge, which in turn will determine their actions. It is indeed the Will which determines a person?s actions. The ability to read another person?s Will and take the necessary steps in a relationship is an important talent.
Why should a person forgive another? When one person forgives another they are in turn forgiving themselves. The internal mental principles of the forgiver are being reformed when they forgive another. When a person forgives another they will more easily forgive themselves for similar past and current actions. A person should be more concerned with trying to reform themselves than trying to reform another human being.
Forgiveness is based on the hope for a better future in a relationship. Hope has been declared as a useless idea by Hesiod in his ?Work and Days.? If the person who is forgiven does not seek or produce a better future in a relationship, then they should not be forgiven again and the relationship should be ended. The forgiver must constantly check the actions of the forgiven. Above all the forgiver should be harder on his own actions, than on the forgiven; but must constantly be protected from being exploited.
Guest
Sunday, April 1, 2007 -- 5:00 PM
It took 11 years of misdiagnosis, shoddy medical eIt took 11 years of misdiagnosis, shoddy medical exams, crappy medical care, wrong prescriptions and outright medical abuse to get a full and complete diagnosis for what turned out to be three chronic illnesses. One might SAY the doctors didn't know any better, but it was their JOB to know. Should I forgive them? Yup. The same way I'd forgive a rattlesnake that crawled into my sleeping bag! Forgiveness for an honest mistake might take only an appology, but asking people to forgive someone who has put them through life-threatening abuse is a pile of vicious, feel-good, namby-pamby bunk. If philosophy is to be anything more than Soduko with big words, it must help people live better lives. Too much forgiveness can literally put people's lives in danger. I say, approach all rattlesnakes with extreme caution--and a big stick.
Guest
Saturday, December 20, 2008 -- 4:00 PM
Are you ready to forgive George Bush? www.forgiveAre you ready to forgive George Bush?
www.forgivegeorge.com
Timely and challenging new site about forgiveness...
:-)
P.S. Love the show...